JL: I think that slightly doesn't exist anymore - say you can put 'I want to be cool' into the Internet, and then you get a list of clothes - if you have the money you can get it. What I don't think a lot of people realise with people like me or with Fraser (Cooke), is we didn't come from money - we didn't have anything more than anybody else. We were just stupidly obsessive enough to get on flight to New York, and go and buy trainers... instead of food... it was that ridiculous. The debt's I had then, and I'm still paying them off now from Mo' Wax - it was like the lunatics running the asylum! [We talk about days of discovery - innocence - will it ever be there for the kids of today. The Internet age] JL: I think there will be something that will come out of reaction to where we are now with the street-scene side of things because at the moment we are rehashing a lot of things, and the street art aspect of things is not exactly particularly new - it's got to the point where it is saturated. You must get hit by millions of new T-shirt brands, and toy producers. Who is responsible for decisions on that level ? JL: I've got to be really honest with you; I'm just really saturated with it all. I like Neighborhood - I have my relationship with APE, and I have my relationship with Nigo, where there are things that I see, and he does on a different level. I don't think I'm as on it as maybe people would expect me to be. I've taken a bit of a back seat. It's like with toys - "do I go out and buy a load of new toys, or do I find something a bit more unique?" I thought it was interesting when Kubrick did 1000% - it was suddenly taking it to a more sculpted art orientation - slightly more individual. So it's that side of things that I'm more interested in at the moment. It's the same with sneakers - I bought every other pair of Nikes for years, and now I find I wear the same pairs (points to Neighborhood Superstars). EC: I have been buying for Ambush for the past 4-5 years, Ambush carries more than 16-17 lines all together. But for Surrender, we tend to be more selective as in the style has to be a bit more matured and subtle and at the sametime, focus on the quality and construction of the garment. Most importantly, it has to go with what we're doing. Besides the store, what other extra-curricular activities do you have planned ? JL: Doing the record, and working on some soundtracks, stuff like that. EC: Within this year, we would like to have a few exhibitions at the gallery that features our favourite artists. -- You have reached the end of quite an intense Episode II. Follow the red arrow below to Episode III. Also visit the official SURRENDER website